Topic: Logo timestamping

-- the state of the project as of August 8th 2010 --




-- the original post from October 2009 --

I hereby present to you a poor man's version of logo time-stamping.

The logo is embedded into an .exe file and the file is signed with so-called code signing cryptographic key. These keys are available to general public, but they are meant for and are almost exclusively used by the software development companies.

Interestingly enough this adds not only a cryptographic signature (if you don't know what it is, don't worry), but also a timestamp of the operation. Moreover the timestamp is then counter-signed by Verisign, which is as big and trustworthy as it gets in electronic signing business. The counter-signing means that Verisign confirms that the specific version of the file existed at a specific point in time, and latter is recorded in a timestamp that is attached to the file. Since the logo is an integral part of the file, the time stamp automatically confirms that it also existed in recorded time.

Once signed, anyone can right-click on the .exe file in Windows Explorer, select Properties and look at the Digital Signatures tab:

http://swapped.cc/stuff/stamper/stamper-timestamp.png

That's the time that the logo embedded in the .exe is guaranteed to have had existed at.

If anyone wants to check this out in detail, here is a sample .exe file (56 KB). "Save as" it and look at its Properties. If you run it, it will just show the PNG of the embedded logo:

http://swapped.cc/stuff/stamper/stamper-screenshot.png

What I'd like to know though .. let say there's an web service that allows anyone to generate such .exe files and perhaps reliably store and manage their copies. Will any of you guys be interested in this at all ? Obviously the litigation support is not to be included :-)

Alex


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Last edited by epsilon (Aug 09 - 5:38 am)

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Re: Logo timestamping

really really nice man

Re: Logo timestamping

Oookay .. smile  .. But would you personally use something like this ?

Re: Logo timestamping

if i thought my stuff would be ripped off in the public arena and it was jsut one more way to prove i am the owner, sure i would

Re: Logo timestamping

Judging by the silence, it seems that people like to complain about (the lack of) this sort of services, but no one is interested in actually employing them.

David, I think if there are no new posts in the next few days, I will shelve the project and the thread will probably be better un-sticked then. Thanks for the sticky by the way. Appreciate it.

Re: Logo timestamping

I think a webservice would be awesome so I don't have to use my PC.  Overall this a really solid idea and I'm surprised by the lack of enthusiasm 'round these parts.  I mean something has to be better than nothing, yes?

It's not the size of the studio, it's how you use it.
Web Design Madison - A logo designer and web developer from Madison, Wisconsin.

Re: Logo timestamping

epsilon, I think I asked about something like this a while ago in one of my threads. I'm all for something like this. Thanks!!!

8

Re: Logo timestamping

I just seen the post now... Sounds good to me.

Re: Logo timestamping

Great idea, epsilon.  Thanks for sharing with us.  Also, someone mentioned somewhere on the Pond that you could print out a version of the logo and mail it to yourself on the day it's created.  Keep the envelope sealed.  This will also give a date for when the logo was created.

Re: Logo timestamping

OK, thanks for the input. It sounds like there is at least some interest, which is what I assumed. I will try and put something together in the next few weeks, and then I will probably need a bit of a personal one-on-one feedback WRT exact functionality of the site/service. One step at a time, perhaps something will come out of all this.

I should also probably mention that I am a professional software dev. and I happen to specialize among other things in applied cryptography (which where timestamping belongs to). So if this gets done, it will be done right :-)

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Re: Logo timestamping

My services are available to you , hosting site design help with any basics web development, send me an email if you really want to get something started in terms of an online 'stamping' service.

Re: Logo timestamping

Sounds like a great idea, Alex.

Re: Logo timestamping

Great idea!

Art Machine  |  Logopond Showcase  |  Website  |  E-Mail

Re: Logo timestamping

David, thanks for the offer. There are some things I'd like to discuss with you. I will email you in a bit.
Your website is 403 by the way, so I'm not sure what your email is.

15

Re: Logo timestamping

Can this happen for macs too please :^)

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Re: Logo timestamping

email is cd@climaxdesigns.com

Re: Logo timestamping

dache wrote:

Can this happen for macs too please :^)

It is certainly doable and I can see this being in even more demand that a Windows version.

Re: Logo timestamping

Also if you turn it into a webapp all that should matter is the machine you host on...

It's not the size of the studio, it's how you use it.
Web Design Madison - A logo designer and web developer from Madison, Wisconsin.

19

Re: Logo timestamping

How is this any different than the 'mail it to yourself' ploy? Either way, it's not a legally sufficient so is of little use within the legal process.

Not that it's not a neat idea...it is.

Re: Logo timestamping

> How is this any different than the 'mail it to yourself' ploy?

It is similar only in that it is not accepted as an evidence in a court of law. At least in Canada and US. It is different though in that it is meant to be used as a copyright enforcement mechanism before the court even enters the picture.

I think having proper timestamping in place can facilitate and speed up resolution of copyright disputes. Especially if the timestamp is very easy to verify and it does not involve trusting some unknown 3rd party, downloading extra software, importing certificates and what not.  The whole thing basically works out of the box, and that's a huge usability plus.

This may also help preventing rips from occurring in the first place. The presence of "certified time of creation" mark next to the logo may be a deterrent enough.

Additionally, this sort of service can be extended to keep track of other "proofs of creation" such as links to archive.org, wikipedia, country-specific electronic notarizations or electronic postal stamping, etc. Just one place to properly record the proof of existence for a piece of work, whether it's a logo, a sketch, a photo of a notepad or whatever.

Lastly, it can also be extended to support legal time of reference in jurisdictions that recognize it, e.g. Japan, Belgium.

Does this make sense ? Or am I being overly optimistic WRT usefulness of such service here ? I know I would use it myself if it existed.